experchange > mac.* > mac.office.word

Dickert, L. H. (09-02-09, 11:36 PM)
I have created a document (docx.) that contains text form fields (created
using Styles but also tried without using Styles). Upon ³locking² the
document, saving it, closing and later opening it ­ all of the text form
fields have lost the formatting created with a given style ­ thus the font
changes to Microsoft Sans Serif.

A few specs for you that may be of help in helping me:

* MacBook Pro
* OS 10.5.8
* Office 2008, version 12.2.0

Any help in resolving this issue is much appreciated.

Kind regards,

CyberTaz (09-03-09, 12:57 AM)
Are you actually selecting the field before applying the formatting?

If you simply insert the field then change the formatting (by styles or
otherwise) without first selecting the field you aren't changing the
formatting of the field. The formatting is being applied to the spot where
the insertion point is -- immediately to the right of the field -- which is
inaccessible while the form is locked.

Click in the field (or shift+left arrow) to select it, then apply your
style. Assuming you have the Preference set to display the field shading,
the shading is a darker gray when the field is selected. If field shading is
turned off a selected field will display as the normal highlight color as if
you had text selected.

HTH |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

On 9/2/09 5:36 PM, in article C6C45DB0.75F7%dickertl, "Dickert,
L. H." <dickertl> wrote:
Dickert, L. H. (09-03-09, 01:10 AM)
On 9/2/09 6:57 PM, in article C6C470B0.52E2A%onlygeneraltaz1,
"CyberTaz" <onlygeneraltaz1> wrote:

> Are you actually selecting the field before applying the formatting?

Thank you for the prompt reply. Yes, I am selecting the field before
formatting. I hope this helps.

Again, thank you.

CyberTaz (09-03-09, 03:06 PM)
The only other thought I can come up with is that the formatting of the
field "appears" to not retain the formatting if you unlock the document. The
indicators you get suggest that the field formatting reverts to the style
oof the paragraph containing the field. However, once you lock the form
again the field's formatting takes over.

If that isn't what's happening in your case I honestly don't know what else
might be causing the behavior... the only thing that comes to mind is
possible corruption in the document. Should it need to be pursued further
please supply explicit details describing the construction of the document &
how you went about what you've done to create it as well as the file format
of the document. Any information -- no matter how trivial or unrelated it
may seem -- might be important.
Dickert, L. H. (09-03-09, 08:37 PM)
On 9/3/09 9:06 AM, in article #RRFncJLKHA.3708,
"CyberTaz" <gtz1@comcastdotnet> wrote:

> how you went about what you've done to create it as well as the file format
> of the document. Any information -- no matter how trivial or unrelated it
> may seem -- might be important.

Thanks again for you reply.

I donıt think the file is corrupt. I can create a new document and place a
few text fields into it, format them by highlighting them, lock, save, close
and reopen only to find Microsoft Sans Serif font in the fields when I type
information into them. I have searched many forums online to find a few
others who are experiencing my precise problem ­ but never has there been
any fruitful answers to the dilemma. I strongly suspect that this is a
Microsoft bug/issue. If so, it seems to have persisted since 2002. That
doesnıt speak very highly of Microsoft should this, in fact, be the case. I
still hold hope that the error resides in something Iım doing.

I wouldnıt mind using the font to which it keeps reverting except that I
really need to have a proportional font ­ and Arial Narrow fits the bill so
nicely. If I simply had any control over font selection ­ Iıd be happy.

In reading an earlier post about some issues with Snow Leopard ­ while Iım
still at 10.5.8 ­ I wonder if there is any quirkiness with having duplicate
fonts in the library/fonts (and the Microsoft folder also contained within

You have been very patient with my problem and I appreciate your tenacity.
If you still think my sharing additional information will help you help me ­
Iıll gladly do so.

In the meantime...cheers!

Dickert, L. H. (09-04-09, 01:14 AM)
On 9/3/09 2:37 PM, in article C6C58534.7786%dickertl, "Dr.
Lewis Dickert" <dickertl> wrote:

>> Any information -- no matter how trivial or unrelated it
>> may seem -- might be important.

Hereıs a slight twist ­ if I type anything into any of the text fields
(while locked) then, using the Delete key, delete all of the text, a smaller
text box with my formatting suddenly appears from behind the text field in
which I was typing (and deleting). As long as I type anything into the text
field ­ even spacebar ­ and save it, the Style formatting remains intact. I
hope that makes sense to you as I really want to figure this out.

A multitude of thanks!

CyberTaz (09-04-09, 12:45 PM)
Hi Lewis;

Here's what I'm seeing here: A field seems to retain the formatting if a
paragraph style is applied to it. This seems to hold true under all
conditions. However, if I format the field directly or apply a character
style I can reproduce what you're seeing if I type into the field then
delete the characters. The formatting of the field appears to revert to the
default formatting to the paragraph containing the field - typically the
Normal para style using that default font.

This is a bit new to me because I don't recall ever having formatted fields
differently from the rest of the body text on the rare occasions where I may
have inserted a field into the text flow. Typically I format the labeling
used for the field & leave the field "as is" except as noted below. This is
a learning experience for both of us, so don't take this as absolute fact...
I'm just my expressing my initial impressions & observations.

I think what you're referring to as a "smaller text box" is the result of
the deletion -- The field contracts as you delete & once you delete all
characters the field "regenerates" to its regular size. In the case of
direct/character formatting, deleting the last character also deletes the
formatting... That type of formatting can't be retained if the text to which
it was applied no longer exists. The field then picks up the formatting of
the paragraph style of the paragraph it's in.

To avoid what's happening you can do at least two things. One is to use a
para style to format the fields. That should be retained whether the field
content is deleted or not. IMHO, that isn't the preferable way to go because
you're essentially "piggy-backing" the field's para style onto the
containing para's style... That can get a little messy :-)

The second option I alluded to above is to put the fields in Table cells &
apply the preferred formatting to the *cell* containing the field rather
than to the field, itself. This also allows you to use either direct
formatting or a char style which won't go away even if the field content is
deleted -- the field formatting remains under the control of the cell & its
formatting can't be altered in a locked form.

That may well be another reason why I've not encountered this before... I've
most frequently followed this path. It also provides more control over the
layout & flow of the document. See if any of this works to your advantage.
If not, I'll call in 1 or 2 others who should have deeper insights.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

On 9/3/09 7:14 PM, in article C6C5C619.77B8%dickertl, "Dickert,
L. H." <dickertl> wrote:
Dickert, L. H. (09-04-09, 06:08 PM)
Hi Bob,

Okay, I think Iıve narrowed the issue down to this:

The formatting only changes when the document is locked. If I save it,
close it, and reopen it without locking it (from the Forms toolbar), then as
I TAB through the text form fields in the table cells ­ all of my formatting
(via Styles) is retained. But the moment I lock it ­ thatıs when the
formatting changes. Visually it is noticeable as the size of the text form
field increases.

Is there some type of ³behind the scenes² protection with Microsoft perhaps
embedding a font into the document (Microsoft Sans Serif) or defaulting to
the MS Sans Serif for a reason thatıs not revealed to the user? If so, I
wonder how one would ³switch² this on/off.

Again, I appreciate your time and help.

Kind regards,

L. H.
NC (10-28-09, 04:49 AM)
Hi L.H. & Bob,
Was this issue resolved? I have a similar problem.
-- Monaco font is replacing Times New Roman in Text Form Fields.

Since updating to Office 2008:
-- Form fields lose formatting when the locked document is saved, closed and
then reopened.
-- Times New Roman is replaced with Monaco (a monospaced font, that destroys
the character limits that I've placed on the cells.)

I'm using OSX Tiger 10.4.11 on a power mac G5.

I have done hundreds of Word forms since around 2000-2001 (thousands of
drafts); applying styles to the Text Form Fields with success (Word 2001,
2004). The styles I use are paragraph and character styles, in normal
paragraphs and also in table cells -- they all now have this problem.

I installed Office 2008 in September and noticed this issue when setting up
new forms a couple of weeks ago.

Process: After I design the form, I lock it and type "sample/greeking" text
into the form fields to check the formatting and character-number fit. As
long as there is text in the field, it retains the formatting that I assign
(I always send my client a sample with the fields filled, so they can see how
the form works.)
-- Removing the text (tab-delete), and saving the file, the formatting/font
appears to still be Times New Roman. Closing and then reopening: the "Style"
box in the formatting palette is blank and the font is now Monaco -- Typing
in the now-blank fields yields Monaco text.

The beauty of the new Word 2008 software is that, when you now unlock the
form and then relock it -- it retains the sample text. I used to have to
retype or paste text back in with every tweak to the form, because unlocking
then relocking the form cleared the fields. Unfortunately, this new bug, or
whatever it is, is spoiling my joy about that, as my client & I can't be
sending out forms with greeking text in them (in order to hold the
formatting) and Monaco is not a good font for our purposes.

I tried doing a Search-and-Replace for Monaco in the forms (after it showed
up) and then locking the form and clearing the fields. It didn't work.
Reopening the file later, Times New Roman was again replaced by Monaco.

If there is a new process for creating Form Text Fields, or creating styles,
or a template default solution that might correct this, could you please let
me know. Thanks!_NC

"Dickert, L. H." wrote:
John McGhie (10-28-09, 07:21 AM)
Sadly, what you're looking at is "the best that Word 2008 can do". It
wasn't resolved, and I very much doubt whether it ever will be.

Forms and Form Fields rely on controls that in turn depend on "code behind"
(active content) to make them work. The loss of VBA means that all of the
content in the Controls toolbox went missing. The "Forms" toolbox is still
there, but what you see is as good as it gets in 2008. Including the
fall-back to Monaco font.

Word 2010 should restore all of this functionality (and be substantially
better than anything we have had on the Mac before...)


On 28/10/09 1:49 PM, in article
B76AD100-E1A5-49BD-9432-3A8ABBA92D68, "NC"
<NC> wrote:
TiPhillips (05-18-13, 11:16 AM)
On Wednesday, September 2, 2009 4:36:48 PM UTC-5, Dickert, L. H. wrote:
TiPhillips (05-18-13, 11:23 AM)
In Response To Fonts Changing Format When Document is Locked in MS Word, the solution is to go to Protect Document and uncheck the "Limit formatting to a selection of styles" under 1. Formatting Restrictions.

When this is checked, the form reverts to preformatted fonts and text sizes. Unchecking the box will allow the form to accept your formatting and text sizes and will keep them the same on any computer.

Good Luck!
Ms Ti Phillips
Earth Stoke 'N Fire Pottery Studio and Artist Retreat
raiderettenancylove (11-03-15, 01:49 AM)
I came across this by accident and was finally able to resolve the same dilemma! thank you! All I had to do was deselect "Limit Formatting"... THANK YOU :)

On Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 2:23:26 AM UTC-7, TiPhi...@earthstokenfire.com wrote:
alex.george.ucsb (01-13-17, 04:30 AM)
Found this by Google, will post my solution in case it helps others.

In my case the problem was that the "style" of the caption I was referencing was small and italics, so the cross-references would revert to that. NOTE, my caption did not look small or italics -- I had manually increased the font size and set it to regular -- but the underlying "style" was unchanged(thanks Microsoft). When I manually changed the caption style to regular,then my cross-references started updating to regular as well.
jaco.salvi (01-30-18, 05:24 PM)
Hi there

I was struggling with this bug in "rich text content controls" in Office 2010. In my case, it seems the formatting went back to the "normal" style, although I specifically set another style to the control. I solved by modifying the normal style to fit my needs...

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