experchange > linux.misc

Nomen Nescio (12-28-18, 06:39 PM)
A tour of elementary OS, perhaps the Linux world’s best hope for the
mainstream.

<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/12/a-tour-of-elementary-os-perhaps-the-linux-worlds-best-hope-for-the-mainstream/>
Peter Kozlov (12-28-18, 07:45 PM)
On 2018-12-28, Nomen Nescio <noreply> wrote:
> A tour of elementary OS, perhaps the Linux world’s best hope for the
> mainstream.
><https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/12/a-tour-of-elementary-os-perhaps-the-linux-worlds-best-hope-for-the-mainstream/>


The mainstream has largely gone to mobile devices. The office drone
tends to use the WinTel machines the corporation provides at minimal
cost from the likes of Dell and HP. Then there is the technology group.
Those that require services for the software which run in data centers.
Those groups use Linux. As a consequence of the back-end there are many
of them that use Linux as a client as well as a services platform. It
makes sense that the developer adopts Linux. Their world is
development-centric and Linux is a great platform for that.

How does the mainstream adopt anything? With the iPhone, it was a leap
forward from the candy bar mobile phone and an evolution forward from the
smartphone. Consumers that were lost with the personal computer suddenly
saw a device that was fun to use. They already knew what an iPod was.
They already knew what SMS was. They already understood the concept of
the browser and the Internet. And Apple put a nice bow on all of that.
With Apple standing firmly behind this evolutionary device people were
ready to take the leap forward. Steve Jobs showed how to use the device
and the press at large covered the event extensively.

If Linux is to go mainstream, it will need something of that scale to do
it. If Microsoft were to buy up Canonical and then replace the Windows
core with Ubuntu, that would do it. Apple took NeXT and made MacOSX out
of it. NeXT STEP wasn't your typical BSD either. NeXT already evolved
BSD into something unique and then Jobs did so again by merging NeXT
with MacOS and creating OSX.

I doubt we ever see Linux as we know it, even Elementary Linux, go
mainstream. It's your basic chicken and egg problem. The user needs to
see it as the obvious evolution to the current platforms in use today.
Why would a company using a cheap Dell PC running Windows, and on top of
that running Office for the drones and QuickBooks for the accountants,
see Linux without these applications as the obvious evolution?

From the point of view of a services provider, this has already
happened. Linux is already the standard for services. The LAMP stack
took the Internet by storm in a short amount of time. Every hosting
company offered IIS or Linux with Apache, MySQL and PHP and the open
Linux platform crushed it. It was an obvious evolution from where we
were with expensive Sun Microsystems hardware and expensive software
licenses from Microsoft, Oracle, Informix, and IBM. It was not even a
contest, it was a slaughter. And now IBM has purchased Red Hat for $34
billion dollars. Linux has absolutely made its mark as a services
platform. There is no doubt of this.

Look at what Microsoft is doing with their applications. They have the
money to host their software. They have Office 365, OneDrive for syncing
storage from the client to the cloud. They have Dell and HP selling
Windows based PCs and more importantly, they have over 30 years of
legacy with corporations. The corporate user likes Office and Windows.
Prying them away from that means giving them something more than they
have now. Linux is a fantastic platform. The cost is certainly something
every business dreams of. But the cost of the OS is only a small part of
the corporate user. There are support costs. There is a learning curve.
And most important there needs to be willingness from publishers to
develop, ship, and support their software on the Linux platform.

When you see all the major publishers supporting Linux, that will be
turning point. Nothing a distribution does to Linux will achieve
mainstream adoption all by itself.
Anonymous (12-28-18, 08:56 PM)
> A tour of elementary OS, perhaps the Linux world’s best hope for the mainstream.
> <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/12/a-tour-of-elementary-os-perhaps-the-linux-worlds-best-hope-for-the-mainstream/>


It's systemd. VOMIT!!! DRY HEAVES!!!
Roger Blake (12-28-18, 09:40 PM)
On 2018-12-28, Anonymous <anonymous> wrote:
> It's systemd. VOMIT!!! DRY HEAVES!!!


Although I dislike systemd, I'll take it over Microsoft's activation hell,
which I am currently embroiled in on a friend's computer that needed to
be reloaded. MS's promise that the Windows 10 "digital license" would be
honored if the OS needed to be reinstalled turns out to be just another
Big Lie.
Peter Kozlov (12-28-18, 10:36 PM)
On 2018-12-28, Anonymous <anonymous> wrote:
>> A tour of elementary OS, perhaps the Linux world’s best hope for the mainstream.
>> <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/12/a-tour-of-elementary-os-perhaps-the-linux-worlds-best-hope-for-the-mainstream/>

> It's systemd. VOMIT!!! DRY HEAVES!!!


You think systemd is somehow holding back Linux from mainstream
adoption? So everyone was just about to replace Windows with Linux, but
them upon closer inspection, ah systemd... never mind...

If anything, systemd is more approachable than init was for the everyday
user.
Peter Kozlov (12-28-18, 10:49 PM)
On 2018-12-28, Roger Blake <rogblake> wrote:
> On 2018-12-28, Anonymous <anonymous> wrote:
> Although I dislike systemd, I'll take it over Microsoft's activation hell,
> which I am currently embroiled in on a friend's computer that needed to
> be reloaded. MS's promise that the Windows 10 "digital license" would be
> honored if the OS needed to be reinstalled turns out to be just another
> Big Lie.


If you've ever used Office 365 you'll see a good license routine. If
they could do that with Windows they'd have a winner. Adobe has a method
where if you install their suite and you already have it activated
elsewhere, you can tell the current install to de-activate older installs
and have the newer take the place of the older.

It's evolving for the better but the pace of this evolution is slow. A
huge advantage for Linux is you're free to install it and distribute it.
A corporate dream come true.
Cybe R. Wizard (12-28-18, 11:13 PM)
On Fri, 28 Dec 2018 12:36:34 -0800
Peter Kozlov <pkoz> wrote:

> If anything, systemd is more approachable than init was for the
> everyday user.


Would you mind explaining why that is so? Small words, if you will,
as my weekend has begun. ;-]

Cybe R. Wizard
Nomen Nescio (12-28-18, 11:26 PM)
> On 2018-12-28, Anonymous <anonymous> wrote:
>> It's systemd. VOMIT!!! DRY HEAVES!!!

> Although I dislike systemd, I'll take it over Microsoft's activation
> hell, which I am currently embroiled in on a friend's computer that
> needed to be reloaded. MS's promise that the Windows 10 "digital
> license" would be honored if the OS needed to be reinstalled turns
> out to be just another Big Lie.


Use Removewat 2.2.9

Anonymous (12-28-18, 11:37 PM)
In article <20181228143854>
Roger Blake <rogblake> wrote:
> On 2018-12-28, Anonymous <anonymous> wrote:
> Although I dislike systemd, I'll take it over Microsoft's activation hell,
> which I am currently embroiled in on a friend's computer that needed to
> be reloaded. MS's promise that the Windows 10 "digital license" would be
> honored if the OS needed to be reinstalled turns out to be just another
> Big Lie.


I don't know what your friend's problem is, but I've done it several
times on multiple machines and it worked just fine.
Roger Blake (12-29-18, 12:04 AM)
On 2018-12-28, Nomen Nescio <noreply> wrote:
> Use Removewat 2.2.9
>


Looks interesting, but I'm leery of using a "crack" program which
Microsoft may work around at some point. (I explained to my friend who
is elderly and doesn't really understand any of this that he needs
permission from Microsoft to use his computer.)

I just spent a fruitless hour or so with Microsoft "Support" which
was about as useful and painless as dropping the computer on my toe.
This is an old computer so I'll probably just put it back to its original
Windows 7, there's still about a year of support left in that puppy and
by that time the PC may be replaced.

Unfortunately the owner uses some Windows-based programs and I don't want
him (or me supporting him) having to deal with Wine or virtual machines,
so Linux is not an option in his case. I guess that's the only reason
people put up with this kind of crap. You wouldn't put up with such an
inconvenience for a damned $20 toaster, but people have to deal with it
on their much more expensive PCs.
Peter Kozlov (12-29-18, 12:30 AM)
On 2018-12-28, Cybe R. Wizard <cybe_r_wizard> wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Dec 2018 12:36:34 -0800
> Peter Kozlov <pkoz> wrote:
> Would you mind explaining why that is so? Small words, if you will,
> as my weekend has begun. ;-]
> Cybe R. Wizard


:)

I said no to post instead of yes and lost my post.

Have you ever changed the hostname of your machine back before systemd?
Typically you had to edit a few files to make that stick and do it
right. With systemd it's just a single command and systemd does the
work.

You can also define systemd units to run a command or a script and these
act like services which you can start, stop, and check on the status of.
By defining the unit you tell systemd what other targets or service it
depends on. So if you wanted it to start after the network starts, you
would define after=network.target.

It's more like meta data than a script. Like when you define a launcher
on your desktop. You would say where the icon is, what the executable
is, what the default directory is, and save all that as a .desktop file.
It makes launching whatever app you want that much easier. systemd makes
services easier with a similar concept. You describe the service unit
and in that description are requirements and the system does the rest.
When your requirements are met the unit executes and these go in
parallel.
Nomen Nescio (12-29-18, 12:31 AM)
> On 2018-12-28, Nomen Nescio <noreply> wrote:
[..]
> only reason people put up with this kind of crap. You wouldn't put up
> with such an inconvenience for a damned toaster, but people have
> to deal with it on their much more expensive PCs.


I will not go beyond Windows 7. Any higher is known to be spying on
you. I value my privacy, even to the point of using a Cotse ssh
VPNthingy and an external pfSense firewall. No one should ever upgrade
to Windows 8 or 10. I have not upgraded my W7 for years now also. I
would not be caught up in the Microsoft update crises mania or afraid
of not being able to run future programs without a system upgrade.
Only games and other childish nonsense requires that. A good x64
Windows 7 machine is all one needs in my opinion. Microsoft is not
making that many system changes, but they are actually trying to
convert people to running a Microsoft service, something that is only
going to lock people into a continuous cost system. I will go to Linux
before getting sucked into that. The only reason I haven't gone to
Linux already is because of the software I am using and written.
Roger Blake (12-29-18, 01:39 AM)
On 2018-12-28, Anonymous <anonymous> wrote:
> I don't know what your friend's problem is, but I've done it several
> times on multiple machines and it worked just fine.


After a lengthy remote tech session with Microsoft, they don't know
what the problem is either. (Generally I'd say it's just another buggy,
unreliable Microsoft malfeature.)
Peter Kozlov (12-29-18, 01:48 AM)
On 2018-12-28, Roger Blake <rogblake> wrote:
> On 2018-12-28, Anonymous <anonymous> wrote:
>> I don't know what your friend's problem is, but I've done it several
>> times on multiple machines and it worked just fine.

> After a lengthy remote tech session with Microsoft, they don't know
> what the problem is either. (Generally I'd say it's just another buggy,
> unreliable Microsoft malfeature.)


Sometimes the request is made to a server which doesn't reply properly
and you get this problem. And even if you call them to do it over the
phone, they themselves have the same issue. It tends to resolve itself
later. Still a hassle. They need a system more like the one they use for
365 apps.
T (12-29-18, 05:13 AM)
On 12/28/18 10:56 AM, Anonymous wrote:
>> A tour of elementary OS, perhaps the Linux world??s best hope for the mainstream.
>> <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/12/a-tour-of-elementary-os-perhaps-the-linux-worlds-best-hope-for-the-mainstream/>

> It's systemd. VOMIT!!! DRY HEAVES!!!


I had the same reaction when I went from Scientific Linux (RHEL clone)
to Fedora.

Guess what? Once you learn it and get past the cussing phase,
you will adore it. So cowboy up!

:-)

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